A handful of decent music podcasts
Podcasting feels like one of the exciting frontiers of DIYism. Pretty much any topic, niche TV programme, hobby or interest will have a couple of podcasts about it. There’s scope for different levels of professionalism, and different flavours of presentation, from slick radio journalism to bedroom ruminating to chatty conversations. I listen to podcasts a lot, generally when I’m out walking, on public transport or working on something which doesn’t require my full attention. I’ll often fixate on a particular show, binge-listening till I lose interest or find a new one that draws my attention. Not all of the podcasts I listen to are music focused, but here are some of my recent favourites. Check them out ‘wherever you get your podcasts,’ as they say.
A classic format that does what it says on the tin. Musician Huw V Williams chats with a different player (mostly) from the British free improv scene. The interviews tend to be fairly long, usually over an hour, and they’re generally lightly edited conversations, so you really get a feel for people’s approach and attitude towards their work. It’s nice to see a few folks I know on the list, but also great to hear about new players, or put a voice to a name in some instances. There are some short sections of music which give context, something (sometimes missing in music podcasts, doubtless due to copyright / content match issues. There are two aspects I find fascinating in these conversations: the weird and wonderful routes people have taken to get where they are, and detailed discussion of their practical and theoretical approach to improvised music making. A good example is the first episode with saxophonist Dee Byrne – though because the sound quality improves later in the run, be aware this one is a bit rough round the edges.
Hosted by Ràdio Web MACBA in Barcelona (one of several longstanding shows on the institution’s platform), Probes is an in-depth timeline of developments in musical instrument design and technique, covering the history of avant-garde music. Written and presented by musician and author Chris Cutler, it’s full of examples of unusual instruments and their stories. There are loads of audio examples in this show, often several minutes of music at a time, which really helps to contextualise the ideas he’s discussing. Each show is thematically grouped around a specific development or line of enquiry – which Cutler calls ‘probes’. This might be a compositional component (there’s an episode on glissandi), or a specific technique (see prepared piano), or a particular instrument and its extensions.
While the episodes are in-depth, they are firmly focused on western classical music. Though various types of music and instrumentation from the global south do get mentioned, they’re only really qualified as being important probes once their contributions to the western art music tradition can be established. Cutler is aware of this, and does try to be expansive, but at times I found this frustrating. With the discussion of such a large number of instruments, composers and musicians there’s also the potential issue that some information has to be left out. It was intriguing, for example, to hear about Percy Grainger’s utopian ‘free music’ machines, but it was not mentioned that Grainger was a staunch and active white supremecist – an important caveat when considering the impact his ideas may have had on musical development.
Probes feels like a series of lectures rather than a chatty and conversational podcast. As such it requires a different type of listening. I’ve spoken to Sam Underwood, who recommended the podcast to me, about this – needing to go back through episodes and make notes. It’s a great series for broadening understanding of instrument design specifically, something both me and Sam are researching and working with.
A History of Rock Music in 500 Songs
I find the scope and ambition of this project absolutely astounding. Andrew Hickey is planning on releasing an episode of this podcast every week for the next ten years. Each show is meticulously researched and written in full, and presented by Hickey with short excerpts of each of the tracks he mentions. There’s also a mixcloud for each episode featuring all the songs in full. It’s an incredible resource. I’m about 80 episodes into the series so far, of the 187 which have been published. If it keeps to schedule it should finish some time in 2028.
The series begins sometime in the 1930s and there’s an extensive exploration of the roots of rock n roll as a genre – genealogy feeding in from western swing, doo-wop, southern gospel, and a dozen other genres which were new to me or too closely related for me to discern. Hickey discusses developments in music production (tape echo in rockabilly); the introduction of specific rhythms, riffs and arrangements; behind the scenes figures including managers, radio DJs and tour promoters; and unpicks the complex rhizomatic relationships between musicians, bands and labels. Refreshingly, he’s careful about giving context to potentially problematic material, and highlights the racism, misogyny and homophobia so inherent in the industry (and society as a whole) in the decades he’s discussing. Abusive and egotistical rock stars aren’t given a free pass, Hickey clearly identifying the kind of toxic behaviour which more mainstream rock music histories might gloss over.
While the stories are fascinating, personal taste will dictate which parts of the series are more interesting. The biographical information is at points incredibly detailed, to the extent that I might sometimes tune out if it’s an era I’m not particularly invested in. Sam, who also recommended this podcast to me, has come across episodes later in the series that stretch to four hours long. For me this is a podcast to listen to whilst doing other things. Hickey’s delivery is direct and to the point and I find it somewhat meditative and relaxing.
So far I found the first couple of dozen episodes of most interest. The way that a genre’s sound evolves from distinct and overlapping parts. Aspects are emphasised and repeated and become part of the makeup of the genre. Accidents of coincidence, workarounds or financially motivated decisions can steer creative outcomes in unexpected ways. At the best moments, Hickey’s skill in following connections – social, technological, aesthetic, cultural – and detailed: drawing out of the causal relationships creates a compelling and inspiring body of research I keep coming back to.
Switching away from music history, and switching genres again, No Tags is very much about present day electronic music and club culture. Presented by Chal Ravens and Tom Lea, both music journalists who cut their teeth with FACT magazine, their stated intention is to catalogue and archive snapshots of underground music culture that might otherwise go undocumented. Breaking from the hype-cycle focus of much coverage of electronic music, it’s great to hear about scenes and artists that are working away in the background without necessarily feeding the content machine. Most episodes feature an in-depth interview bookended with some chat.
The episodes do feel like interviews rather than the less formal conversations of, for example, the Improvised Music Agenda podcast, with questions probing the guests’ professional and personal histories and how their ethics feed into their work. Community building is a recurrent theme, with guests discussing festival curation, radio mentoring and queer clubbing. The presenters’ passion for both the music and the scenes and connections around it is infectious, and the guests are well chosen to highlight key figures to their particular niches. While the presentation is quite polished and the conversations on the whole quite rigorously journalistic, there are some fun and silly bits too, and when guests aren’t in the studio the chat can turn slightly gossipy, which I like too. Ending on film chat each episode is also a welcome gear change..
I heard of this podcast directly from No Tags, when the interview with New York’s Sorry Records covered some of the city’s clubbing history and particularly the loft party scene. Tim Lawrence is an expert on New York in the 70s and particularly David Mancuso, whose loft parties were hugely influential to both the counterculture and modern club culture. I first came across cohost Jeremy Gilbert through an essay on Deleuze and improvised music1, which is still a text I refer back to often. I’d also read his more recent book Twenty First Century Socialism, and somehow assumed his interests and output had moved away from music and more squarely into writing about politics. So his involvement here was something of a surprise to me.
If podcasts generally sit on a spectrum with conversation at one end and lecture at the other, this is right in the middle, feeling like a very focused panel discussion. It’s very detailed and very in-depth, to the point that it can feel as though it’s covering the same ground sometimes. But the depth of knowledge and the connections the presenters draw are formidable, and really informative as to the roots of modern club culture and indeed electronic music.
Mancuso’s loft parties began as a staged environment for friends to take acid in: colourful decor, organic flowing music (from the atmospheric to the ecstatic), a diverse and eccentric crowd, and a focus on freedom of expression at a time when society was incredibly restrictive, particularly for people of colour and gay people. The podcast explores the social and economic factors that led to the existence of these parties, the practical aspects of how they worked and who was involved, and the knock-on effects across culture and society. The scope is at once broad-reaching and incredibly focused. It’s extremely in-depth and thorough in both its analysis and detail. Music features throughout, though in tantalisingly small doses.
Another aspect I particularly enjoy is the overtly practice-research method of ‘putting your money where your mouth is’: the longstanding loft-party inspired clubnight series ran by the presenters, Beauty and the Beat. Modelled on Mancuso’s loft parties (right down to the audiophile Klipschorn speakers), the events aim to capture the spirit of the loft and allow contemporary audiences to experience something like it. Throughout the podcast the practicalities of running the club are discussed in detail too, and it gives weight to the theory and discussion to know it’s grounded in this way.
- Gilbert, Jeremy (2004). Chapter 6 Becoming-Music: The Rhizomatic Moment of Improvisation. In Ian Buchanan & Marcel Swiboda (eds.), Deleuze and Music. Edinburgh University Press. pp. 118-139. ↩︎
Graham Dunning 